Who's Rich enough to be taxed?

I was listening to talk radio the other day about how McCain and Obama were debating the "rich" mark for tax rates, in regards to were you draw the line for determining who deserves a higher tax rate. Apparently Obama said 250K a year was the line, and McCain replied with a sarcastic remark about "five million" being rich. Interestingly enough, Obama would latter criticize McCain for having 7 houses (including investment properties), shortly after he himself had returned from an expensive vacation in Hawaii, and made about four million himself the year before. But enough of that... What is rich? Where do we draw the line?

First of all let me say, I'm not in favor of a "Federal" income tax, but I also recognize that the alternatives in today’s world, with today’s financial mentality, probably aren't much better. Personally I think the 16th & 17th amendments have some serious conflicts of interest with Article 1, section 9, clauses 4 & 5 of the US Constitution; and possibly the 9th and 10th amendments as well. Not to mention how the IRS's poor sense of due process violates the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments, but that’s another subject.

When you start talking about drawing a line on who's rich and who's not, I think you start to pinpoint the major problem with our income tax laws today. Personally I would look to the bible for an answer. Anyone who's read the bible knows that God expects us to Tithe, which by definition means one tenth. God essentially puts us all into the exact same "tax bracket", if you can call it that. Why can't our government do the same? Sure we all want our standard deduction, and other tax saving deductions, but when you get down to how much your "Taxable Income" is (after all the deductions) why can't we all pay the same percentage, or in other words, have everyone be in the same tax bracket? That I think is the only fair and easy way to settle the matter.

- Posted by Seth Hollist

Money Related Scriptures

References in the Scriptures related to Money

Old Testament

Genesis 14:18-20 - Tithing
Genesis 28:22 - Tithing
Genesis 41:35-36 - Savings
Exodus 1:11 - To get Gain
Exodus19:5 - God owns the earth
Exodus 23:8 - Bribes are bad
Leviticus 27:30-34 - Tithing
Deuteronomy 8:17-18 - We owe everything to God
Deuteronomy 14:22,28 - Tithing
Deuteronomy 26:12 - Tithing
Deuteronomy 28:12 - The Lord gives all
1 Samuel 8:3 -
1 Samuel 17:40 -
2 Kings 20:13 -
2 Chronicles 31:5 -
Ezra 1:4 -
Nehemiah 5:3-5 -
Nehemiah 10:38 -
Psalms 20:4 -
Psalms 37:21 -
Psalms 49:6,10 -
Psalms 50:15 -
Psalms 62:10 -
Psalms 109:11 -
Proverbs 3:27-28 -
Proverbs 5:10 -
Proverbs 6:1-8 -
Proverbs 10:2,15,22 -
Proverbs 11:1,4,15,28 -
Proverbs 13:7-8,11,22 -
Proverbs 14:29 -
Proverbs 15:6,16 -
Proverbs 16:3,9,31 -
Proverbs 17:18 -
Proverbs 18:11 -
Proverbs 19:4,21 -
Proverbs 21:5-6 -
Proverbs 22:1,6-7,26-27 -
Proverbs 23:4-5,13-14 -
Proverbs 27:12,23-24 -
Proverbs 28:20 -
Proverbs 29:15,17 -
Proverbs 31:10-12 -
Ecclesiastes 5:5,10 -
Ecclesiastes 6:2,7 -
Ecclesiastes 11:2 -
Isaiah 2:7 -
Isaiah 33:6 -
Isaiah 39:2 -
Jeremiah 51:13 -
Ezekiel 22:25 -
Daniel 11:43 -
Micah 6:10 -
Haggai 1:6 -
Malachi 4:8-11 -

New Testament

Matthew 2:11 -
Matthew 5:40-42 -
Matthew 6:1-4,12,19-21,24 -
Matthew 12:35 -
Matthew 13:44-46 -
Matthew 16:26 -
Matthew 18:23-35 -
Matthew 19:21 -
Matthew 23:23 -
Mark 6:8,20,24 -
Mark 10:10,21,23 -
Mark 12:41-44 -
Luke 8:14 -
Luke 9:3 -
Luke 10:4 -
Luke 11:42 -
Luke 12:21,33 -
Luke 14:28-30 -
Luke 16:9 -
Luke 18:11-12,22,24-25 -
Luke 22:35-36 -
Acts 8:20 -
Acts 19:25 -
Acts 20:33-35 -
Romans 13:8 -
1 Corinthians 10:24 -
1 Corinthians 13:3 -
2 Corinthians 4:7 -
2 Corinthians 9:7 -
Ephesians 4:2-3 -
Philippians 4:19 -
Colossians 2:3 -
2 Thessalonians 3:10 -
1 Timothy 3:3,8 -
1 Timothy 5:8 -
1 Timothy 6:10 -
Titus 1:7,11 -
Hebrews 7:1-2,9 -
Hebrews 11:16 -
James 5:3 -
1 Peter 5:2 -

Book of Mormon

1 Nephi 22:23 -
2 Nephi 9:30 -
2 Nephi 10:5 -
2 Nephi 12:7 -
2 Nephi 26:25-27,29,31 -
Jacob 2:18-19 -
Mormon 1:18 -
Mormon 8:32-41 -
Mosiah 2:21-24 -
Mosiah 4:26,28 -
Mosiah 18:27 -
Mosiah 27:7 -
Mosiah 29:40 -
Alma 1:12,30,31 -
Alma 4:6-8 -
Alma 11:1-9,24 -
Alma 13:15 -
Alma 31:27 -
Alma 39:14 -
Helaman 5:8 -
Helaman 8:25 -
Helaman 12:2 -
Helaman 13:18-20,35 -
3 Nephi 6:12 -
3 Nephi 13:1-4,11,20 -
3 Nephi 16:10 -
3 Nephi 24:8-11 -
Ether 3:21 -

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 6:3,7,20,27 -
Section 11:3,7 -
Section 12:3 -
Section 14:3 -
Section 19:35,38 -
Section 24:18 -
Section 25:10 -
Section 38:30,39 -
Section 43:25,34 -
Section 48:4 -
Section 51:3 -
Section 63:48 -
Section 64:23,27 -
Section 67:2 -
Section 75:24,28 -
Section 78:18 -
Section 82:17,22 -
Section 84:78,85-86,89-90,103 -
Section 85:3 -
Section 88:119 -
Section 89:19 -
Section 97:11-12 -
Section 104:78 -
Section 111:2,4 -
Section 115:13 -
Section 121:35 -

- Posted by S.J. Hollist

Tithing: A talk I gave in church

I was asked to speak in church this sunday with the topic being on Tithing.  Here are my notes from that talk:

Sacrifice:

Tithing is a fundamental principle to the personal happiness and well-being of Church members both rich and poor. It is a sacrifice that the lord expects us to make.

In old Testament times the Lords people were command to make Sacrifices. Back then these Sacrifices were in the form of . . .

In “Lectures on Faith (1985), 69–70.” The Prophet Joseph Smith is quoted as saying, “A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation. Those who do not make the sacrifice cannot enjoy this faith, because men are dependent upon this sacrifice in order to obtain this faith.”

Talk by James E Faust:

Jame E. Faust, The Second Counselor in the First Presidency commented on this in the Oct. 1998 Sunday morning session of conference saying:

“If something can be had cheaply, without exertion or sacrifice, people do not mind having a little bit of it. In contrast, the blessings of membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints require both exertion and sacrifice. Receiving the blessings requires the payment of tithes and offerings.”

To expand on his topic President Faust gave this story:

“As a boy I learned a great lesson of faith and sacrifice as I worked on my grandfather’s farm during the terrible economic depression of the 1930s. The taxes on the farm were delinquent, and Grandfather, like so many, had no money. There was a drought in the land, and some cows and horses were dying for lack of grass and hay. One day when we were harvesting what little hay there was in the field, Grandfather told us to take the wagon to the corner of the field where the best stand of hay stood and fill the wagon as full as we could and take it to the tithing yard as payment of his tithing in kind.
I wondered how Grandfather could use the hay to pay tithing when some of the cows that we were depending upon to sustain us might starve. I even questioned if the Lord expected that much sacrifice from him. Ultimately, I marveled at his great faith that somehow the Lord would provide. The legacy of faith he passed on to his posterity was far greater than money, because he established in the minds of his children and grandchildren that above all he loved the Lord and His holy work over other earthly things. He never became wealthy, but he died at peace with the Lord and with himself.”

How much tithing are we command to pay?

D&C 119:4 - And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually

Very little other counsel is giving in this respect. It is between us and the lord the decide the actual dollar amount, and each year around this time we have the great blessings to meet with the bishop and report on our tithing. All he asks is if you weather or not you have paid a full tithe or not. Although he may give you a receipt, he’s not going act like an IRS agent and ask for your pay stubs or check your accounting methods. It’s not even necessary to make sure we have made all our contributions we plan to make for the year. He’s know it’s between you and the lord and is merely their to help as servant of the Lord. If you haven’t been paying your tithing this is the perfect opportunity to repent, and to start anew. Don’t feel like you have to catch up, the Lord doesn’t collect back taxes, but he does want to be able to bless you for your obedience going forward.

Let us not be like the men spoken of in:

MALACHI 3:8 “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.”

President Joseph F. Smith (1838–1918) put it very boldly in saying: “By this principle it shall be known who is for the kingdom of God and who is against it. … By it it shall be known whether we are faithful or unfaithful” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 276).

Tithing may seem difficult at to pay at times, but God has promised us that he will not give a commandment without provide a way for us to full fill it.

1st Nephi 3:7 “. . . the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”

- Posted by S.J. Hollist